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#278745 - 10/25/06 02:45 AM
Admin Deals-Own publishing?
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keith
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Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 19
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In an admin deal, in general, are the publishers getting to OWN a piece of the publishing, or just taking their percentage without owning any of the publishing share?
Is it normal for a publisher to want to OWN a percentage of the publishing when entering into an admin deal?
The case right now is the publisher wanting to own 15% of publishing on a single track if it is placed in a particular project. My opinion on admin deals was that there was no ownership of tracks involved....
Would love to hear any opinions.....
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#278746 - 10/25/06 11:19 AM
Re: Admin Deals-Own publishing?
[Re: keith]
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freeclue
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Registered: 01/24/00
Posts: 2264
Loc: west coast
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my experience has been that admin deals can range widely in percentage (5 to 20%), equity (service only to shared ownership), and services (from none to what passes for full service co-publishing)
the most notable disparities between admin and straight co-pub deals are that admin generally doesn't portend any front loaded advance monies, and are usually offered to catalog that is already significantly revenue bearing
soooo, if your publishing is already making a bunch of money, the paperwork is bogging you down, and you don't NEED daily songplugging, an admin deal may just be your best bet
_________________________
"I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers." - Gandhi
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#278747 - 10/26/06 10:11 PM
Re: Admin Deals-Own publishing?
[Re: freeclue]
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keith
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Registered: 10/25/06
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This all makes sense. Thanks for the advice!
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#278748 - 11/04/06 03:41 AM
Re: Admin Deals-Own publishing?
[Re: keith]
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simulacra
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Registered: 01/06/03
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generally speaking, an admin deal is one where a publisher will administrate for you. they don't take any kind of ownership. administrate simply means they will handle paperwork on licensing deals, hopefully keep track to make sure ASCAP/BMI performance income is paid correctly, and so on.
usually they take 10% to 20% for this service.
since their % is so low, they typically won't pay advances, unless there's a very significant track record to show their risk is extremely low.
Something worth noting is that with a Co-Publishing deal, 'ownership' does not necessarily mean 'forever'. One can do a co-publishing deal that only lasts for a limited period of time.
And one can do a co-publishing deal where the split is not 50/50.
It's not uncommon to sign a Co-pub deal which looks like an admin deal. The concepts are really blurred these days.
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#278749 - 11/08/06 08:33 PM
Re: Admin Deals-Own publishing?
[Re: simulacra]
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Joda
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Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 3544
Loc: New York, NY
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Don't do any publishing deals (standard, co-pub or admin) unless you have to.
If you are at the point in your career where you might be offered a sketchy admin deal then you are at the point in your career where you don't have much to administrate anyway.
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#278750 - 11/10/06 08:54 AM
Re: Admin Deals-Own publishing?
[Re: Joda]
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B1gStar
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Registered: 07/27/03
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Joda,
Are you suggesting that no publishing situation is worth signing? I would have to disagree in some instances.
If you are offered a larger advance than you believe the compositions you write will ever earn from licensing, take the advance and say "thank you."
In addition, if you are offered a great multiple of the NPS, sell a catalog and let someone else worry with garnering uses.
I couldn't say "never sign a publishing deal" myself.
_________________________
"Well I still smell the smoke of the bridges I burned."
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#278751 - 11/11/06 12:50 PM
Re: Admin Deals-Own publishing?
[Re: Joda]
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elvishitler
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Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 725
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Quote:
Don't do any publishing deals (standard, co-pub or admin) unless you have to.
If you are at the point in your career where you might be offered a sketchy admin deal then you are at the point in your career where you don't have much to administrate anyway.
If you a) have no mechanical income to collect and b)don't have lots of negotiating to do vis a vis your songs, i.e no activity, then by all means, don't do an admin. deal. If that's the case, not many publishers will be interested anyway. If your songs are active, the biggest mistake writers make is waiting too long to get their ducks in a row. If you do an admin. deal with a reputable publisher, and it's short term, you hardly have much to lose - and a lot to gain by ensuring your songs are properly handled. Many publishers have "bumps" in their admin. deals for exploitation which is good for you as well - incentive for them to be proactive. Stay away from anyone who wants ownership for a measly placement in an low budget movie or TV show. Same goes for this growing group of film/TV placement folks out there - the ones who want ownership for their services are to be avoided at all costs - unless, of course, they put a floor on the sync fee for such ownership - i.e., I can't imagine a struggling band not giving up a 50% co-pub interest in a song for a 50k end title.
Read Wixen's book, and check out his site - http://www.wixenmusic.com/
He knows his stuff but keep in mind - he is bias, and of course his bias leans strongly towards admin. vs. a puplisher ever having an ownership interest in a copyright - which makes sense because he earns his living this way - it's not so black and white in reality.
Edited by elvishitler (11/11/06 02:03 PM)
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#278752 - 11/24/06 02:34 PM
Re: Admin Deals-Own publishing?
[Re: Joda]
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simulacra
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Registered: 01/06/03
Posts: 142
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Quote:
Don't do any publishing deals (standard, co-pub or admin) unless you have to.
If you are at the point in your career where you might be offered a sketchy admin deal then you are at the point in your career where you don't have much to administrate anyway.
I don't think the world is so black or white. Many artists do publishing deals which are co-pub or admin and they get quite a lot out of it. Others do publishing deals and are miserable. I would say most get something out of it, but are also aggrivated by the red tape, and so on.
But I would not advise people to not do publishing deals and I would especially not turn people away from admin deals.
Most artists have little or no experience in publishing and an admin deal can be the first line of protection for things like fees, collections, copyright registrations and networking.
I know a lot of artists who are quite happy with admin deals that were done before they 'had to'.
My 2 cents.
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#278753 - 11/27/06 01:18 AM
Re: Admin Deals-Own publishing?
[Re: simulacra]
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elvishitler
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Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 725
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This is very true. Best thing to do is talk to writers signed to various pub cos, and see how they're treated. And remember, you can and should expect that collection, registration and negotiating are done properly - but there are no sure things when it comes to exploitation - even if the publisher tries hard - it's rough out there.
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#278754 - 11/27/06 06:51 PM
Re: Admin Deals-Own publishing?
[Re: elvishitler]
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rkt88
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Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3004
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as has been pointed out..admin deals are fine..don't involve any ownership and are well worth the 10 ( at most ever ) 15% they charge. it's a safe bet that no one in here is going to be able to avail themselves of one. don't shoot me, i'm only a piano player.
co pub deals that either involve a per song commitment ( say ten annually ) or for all works over term are also fine, and *always* involve a reversion after a period of time and are fine..if you like to be advanced monies. there is nothing wrong with borrowing half a million dollars if you're being exploited to the extent that it will be paid back given the ancillary ( self contained writer artist/recording? ) activity..
given that most creatives aren't not in a position to be able to exploit their works as efficiently as a full service pubbery can..unless you're realsongs..and they come to you... pub deals are terrific.
keyword: reversion.
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